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“Black students don’t matter at NWU-Pukke”

The demand for transformation and decolonisation has taken centre stage across many universities in South Africa. MASEGO LEGODI*, a second-year student at the North West University, Potchefstroom campus (NWU-Pukke), says transformation is far from arriving at her university. She told Pontsho Pilane about the subtle racism she experiences daily at the university.

I have been at Pukke for almost two years now and I feel more out of place as the days pass. There are so many things that contribute to my alienation. Black students are the minority here, which is shocking because I come from a high school where black people are the norm. But here, I feel my blackness and I cannot escape it.

In first year, I had only one module that was lectured in English – the rest were in Afrikaans and I had to use the translation devices. I was taken aback by how Afrikaans the university is. The prospectus said it was a bilingual university, so I did expect Afrikaans to be used often, but there is an imbalance. To call Pukke a bilingual university is a lie – it is an Afrikaans university that occasionally uses English to accommodate the non-Afrikaans speaking students.

In lectures that are in English, some Afrikaans students refuse to use the translation devices because they say that they are useless, yet we are expected to use them all the time. But this goes beyond the language use, there is this belief that Afrikaans students belong here more than us black students, and it is evident in the way we are treated.

Just last week I was walking in the duikweg (tunnel) back to my res and a group of guys behind me were speaking in Afrikaans. They walked in my direction and one of them screamed in my ear “Fuck out of the way!” The other guys patted him on his back and as they walked up the stairs, one of them looked back and said “Sy staan stil” (“She is standing still”) and they laughed. I stood there paralysed by shock and fear. The Afrikaans students think they own this campus and they can do as they please.

This is not the first time something like this has happened to me, but I have never reported it because here at Pukke we don’t talk about such things. It is seen as taboo to bring up the subtle ways in which black students are discriminated against. We have accepted this so much that we think this is life. We are made to feel as if we are being done a favour by being allowed to come study here.

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RELATED: NWU-Pukke: “Pukke is the only Afrikaans campus left, where must we go?”
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When I have spoken out about the overuse of Afrikaans, I have been told I should have gone to a different university. You would swear that I am here for free and that I don’t pay tuition.

Honestly, being a student at Pukke is insulting to my blackness and my humanity.

When I see movements like Open Stellenbosch and Rhodes Must Fall, I am so envious. I wish the black students here had the same spirit. Everyone here seems to have accepted this kind of behaviour as normal and most don’t want to jeopardise their education fighting a system that seems so unshakable.

As a black child, you want to return home with a degree – you don’t want to be excluded for protesting. My friends have warned me not to become too vocal because people are watching and life could become difficult for me.

Unless something drastically changes here at Pukke, I don’t see any transformation happening. Transformation at this point will not come from students because we first need to put fire on the institution and its management for something to happen. But that will come at the possible cost of our education; something very few are willing to put on the line.

One thing is crystal clear though: the lives of black students do not matter here.

– Not her real name
– Featured image via Facebook

About Pontsho Pilane

Pontsho Pilane
Pontsho Pilane is the Jo'burg reporter for The Daily Vox. Her interests include issues of gender, class and racial identity in South African media.

102 comments

  1. One has always suspected that these things are happening but how do you confirm it.Look at Stellenbosch.They accepted that they have a problem and are working at it.Pukke uses denial..This is very said and myopic.

  2. Black propoganda. The majority of black students at Potch campus don’t feel that way. You have a political agenda which you don’t know have already failed. By the way you can’t beat the masons. W2B1A1 lol.

    • so you speak for the majority of black people? Oh wait, you not black, are you?

    • Black ex-Pukke Student

      Speak for yourself!!!

      I don’t know of any black Pukke student who did not feel discriminated against! I’ve studied at this university for 5 years and this article brings out more truth about this university than any article I’ve ever read. I felt the same way.

      We were told our course was only offered in English, which was all a lie. None of us could get away since we studied with bursaries that were especially for that course that is not offered in any other university.

  3. The reason white students doesn’t use the translation services when the class is in english is because we understand english if we can learn english you guys can try and learn afrikaans or use the translations services. Everybody knows pukke is mostly afrikaans and it is the only university left for afrikaans students it is true that if u want to study in english by all means go to mafikeng campus etc. This is just a political thing. Just because it’s afrikaans it doesn’t mean that it is racist.

    • I think you need to shut up. I don’t see white people trying to learn other south African languages to try to accomodate black people…. Don’t try to justify the never ending rasism and discrimination in South Africa with that. Bye!

      • I also don’t see black people trying to learn Afrikaans.
        Unfortunately racism and discrimination is everywhere is SA, and everyone, whether you are black or white or anything inbetween, is affected.
        I don’t have any problem with black people, however I do have a problem when people like the person in the article, thinks the world owes them something, and when they don’t get it, everyone who refused them is immediately labeled a racist.

      • Im studying Sotho as an extra language and I’m white, so your argument is invalid!

  4. Me, being an afrikaans speaking student that studies in English. .. I can personally vouch for the translation services. The English translation services are much better than the afrikaans and I do not see what you have such a problem. Do you see the afrikaans students protesting because their textbooks are in English and they have to translate them themselves? Do you see white students beating and stabbing black students. Please do not let the conflict at other universities be the motivation for your so called “up rise” at the PUK. It is not about the black students not having the correct spirit. If people are unhappy the correct way to go about things is not to riot and break the university premises. I really think you should do research into the way the other students feel before you complain to a reporter and make statements that have no motivation besides your bias opinions.

    • I think you are missing one important thing here, English is not any black person’s mother tongue, so please be advices that black people have to learn English same as you guys, we are not talking about local languages here. I was at Pukke last year and white guys violated me more than ones at the tunnel, Black student was killed at the pools three years ago and the university have done nothing about it, I personally do not expect u to understand as u are the one benefiting at the moment.

      • So many assumptions and fallacies.

        1) What has been done to develop universities where South African black languages are used for instruction? From my understanding nothing has been done in this regard because the majortiy of black students wish to study in English for the reason that it is an international language. In the spirit of celebrating diversity, if the majority of a specific language group desire to study wanted to study in their first language and everything was in place to do so – as is the case with Afrikaans – how hypocritical would it be to deny them this on the basis that’s not what you want.

        2) The person who died at the pool drowned because he didn’t know how to swim. As a result the swimming pool has been closed.

        3) The Potch campus of the NWU is not a bilingual campus. The language of tuition is Afrikaans and students who wish to study here but do not understand the language can do so via interpreting services. Suddenly this doesn’t sound racist at all. In fact, it sounds like, in spite of the marginalisation of this particular language in the public sphere, this campus is actually trying to be accommodate students beyond their primary interest group.

    • As a new student I had it with you Afrikaans speaking student and also the lecture are going to have to get translation devices, cause from on all comments will be done in my mother tongue, and so be it if hulle kan my nie verstaan nie, julle moet a plan maak, cause I took all de efforts to tolerate but joale ho lekane, it is your call gaan julle ons appreciate or re no go bua puo ya ga mma. Let it be.

    • Until you’re in the situation, you’ll never understand. Being in a environment that makes you feel inferior, and you having to always prove your worth as a person is not a healthy environment to live in. I study at the vaal campus and I have friends that have transferred to the vaal from Pukke in their second year… They also say the very same thing that the lady in the article says. What I know is that WHERE THERE’S SMOKE THERE’S FIRE… You can’t seriously think that all of this students are delusional, come on now. It’s such ignorance that will always prevent transformation… Afrikaans students do think that the are superior to black students, because that’s what this university teaches. Of course if you’re on the white side, you won’t simply get it. Afrikaans students get special treatment, that’s how it is!!!!!!!

  5. BMI Pukke Former student

    “Samantha and anonymous” u are being ignorant.

    Of the 11 official languages, why is Afrikaanse treated special? Some of the lectures there cannot speak English well.. we struggle to understand them when they explain to us…
    When there is a general conversation or debate in class and u guys are laughing – the translator keeps quite. Think about how another humanbeing feels? Stop being selfish…english is for all… there is no such thing as a zulu university … so y is there an Afrikaner university.

    To the writer: we all feel like u feel… but we were scared to come out…. our parents need this degree. It is wicked, but we are breadwinners at home..this is a great risk.

    • instead of breaking down universities why don’t you start a zulu university? i’m tired of racist remarks and always blaming Afrikaans people. At least they have tried to build things instead of how we break everything down and have not created anything noteworthy in the 20+ years since Apartheid…. why cant we just change our attitudes and start building things instead of burning this country to the ground? i would fully support the black african who builds up the nation – not through violence, intimidation, striking etc but through innovation!

    • Former Pukke IT Student

      Don’t call it an Afrikaner university, that is racist, it is an Afrikaans university. Yes they might call it a bilingual university and yes the services are not the best, but most people that go to Pukke know that is Afrikaans. If you wanted to go to an English university you could have gone to any other university in the country. Yes it is a shame that there is no Zulu university, or a university for any of the other languages. Afrikaans is not treated special it is actually being hate on by people like you. So then, in a way it gets treated special. I am all for studding in whatever language you want and I will offer my services as a software developer to help however I can to set up such a university. If Pukke wants to be Afrikaans then let them. Don’t destroy something just because they did something wrong, rather help them to be better.
      As for the racism, yes there will always be racism IN THE WORLD, but not all people are racist. Also, just because there is Afrikaans speaking people that are racist does not mean everything Afrikaans is racist. Racism will also not stop if Pukke suddenly becomes English, it might actually become worse. Also have you ever consider that SOME white people are not racist, just assholes. The same goes for every other race, sometimes PEOPLE are just assholes. But my experience on the Puk with people (of all different races), which I encounter on a daily basis actually was that of being friendly towards each other. Or it could just have been that I was friendly with them and they were friendly with me. So I am not a racist and I was a student at the Puk.

    • Exactly. What is so special about Afrikaans?!

    • Pontsho Pilane

      Hi, Would you be willing to speak anonymously? You don’t have to reveal your identity publicly. Please drop me an email at pontsho@thedailyvox.co.za

    • Afrikaans isn’t treated special. The expressed needs of various demographic groups in South Africa is different. What has been done to develop universities where South African black languages are used for instruction? From my understanding nothing has been done in this regard because the majority of black students wish to study in English for the reason that it is an international language. In the spirit of celebrating diversity, if the majority of a specific language group desired to study in their first language and everything was in place to do so – as is the case with Afrikaans – how hypocritical would it be to deny them this on the basis that’s not what you want.

      If you wish to study in e.g. Tswana, and the language hasn’t been developed to a full tertiary academic level across enough fields of study, why not take a pro-active approach and get other like-minded Tswana-speaking students to help you start a movement to generate support for developing an institution like this.

  6. I dont think any1 will comeout. I am scared too

  7. Firstly I am ashamed at this article. I am an alumni of the Northwest University Potchefstroom Campus – and it was the best time of my life. I did not go into this blindly – i know there are the three campuses – Mahikeng which is mostly Tswana, Vaal Pukke which is English/Tswana/Afrikaans and Pukke which is Afrikaans and English. I was proud to go to this campus as i chose to be educated here and with English text books – which the Afrikaans kids also have to translate! It’s disgusting how easily we just throw words like ‘transformation’ and ‘racism’ around like scapegoats. I fully took part in the campus activities and was welcomed. There are many white students who are also picked on – if they dont want to participate in forming part of the campus and campus life. Stop just critisising everything and trying to break everything down all in the name of ‘transformation’. They are working on building the university up further – a few years ago it was still one-campus one university and they peacefully transitioned into a 3-campus university. These things dont happen overnight, people are working on it.

    And yes, if you want to go out and change everything – you signed up for the university, the university didnt crawl after you and begged you to come change them. Put aside your spoiled brat attitude and realize that you can fit in, stop trying to break everything down.

    sheesh

  8. Since this has now become a racial matter, I will comment as a white, Afrikaans speaking student at Pukke (A fact I am very proud of). While I don’t use the translating services, I also study in English, as it is easier than translating the entire textbook to Afrikaans. The protest of last week is an excellent example of why I do not want the campus to ‘become’ English, because apparently threathening to kill the white, Afrikaans students is now acceptable. From the article it appears you have the same mindset, so once the campus completely caters to your every whim, I will have to watch my back all the time, in fear of you trying to harm me. Please also note I keep reffering to Pukke as a campus, not a university. You complain about it being a too Afrikaans university, but please keep in mind that Pukke is the Afrikaans Campus of the North West University. Just as Vaal Campus is English and Mafikeng is Sotho. So I agree with whomever told you that there are other univeristies. I have just has much right to be educated in my language of choice ,which is Afrikaans, as you have to be educated in yours. I also pay tuition, it’s not like I got in for free. I chose Pukke because I want to be educated in Afrikaans at the best Afrikaans University in South Africa, and for the culture that is on campus. Most of the time it is your attitude toward things that determine how you experience them, so what did you do in regards to making white, Afrikaans friends? Because I have made an effort to know the black students that were with me in res in my first year. I asked about their culture and tried to understand to the best of my abilities. Transformation does not mean that one group just keeps receiving, without giving anything back, and the other group just keeps giving. You can’t keep playing the victim.

    • well said Carla! Thank you also for having the guts to post here. It’s so easy for us to always label white people as racists. There are racists in every race – and it seems especially in the black community lately. When will there ever be a time when we stop expecting everything to be given to us. I see the white people work very hard for what they get while we, sadly, get handed everything too easily. we have become spoiled!

    • Only if you feel free. Can you please email me on dimakatsoedmond@gmail.com I would like to have a private chat with you and I asure you its not about racism or other aspects of controversy.

      Please do send me an email

  9. I always read these articles, trying to keep an open mind and keeping myself distant from any racial bias. But after reading this I really need to speak out. So, to start off, I am a white South African. I studied at the Potchefstroom Campus and during said studies I resided in a men’s hostel. I made some amazing black friends who did some extraordinary things – who also preferred accumulating participation marks rather than just becoming another “quota” resident (yes, those are real). So you seem to generalize in making all white people out to be the dangerous racists? Then I will even the playing field. Let’s start:
    Were those guys carrying any form of weaponry, and being led by a (political) spoken out racist?
    http://forumnuus.co.za/betoging-ruk-handuit-elsenburg-studente-met-swepe-aangerand/#.VeWJuxvduWA.facebook
    Were those guys politically affiliated with a government that promised economic growth to the people here:
    http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Violent-protest-at-Anglos-Mogalakwena-mine-20150902
    There are countless incidents that never make the news. Even if the Potchefstroom Campus is not as bilingual as you
    would like, the North West University can be considered trilingual. As a white male I have found myself doing everything I can to educate myself regarding personal finance management, because black economic empowerment
    has never really held any “white male” advantages. And therefore I am a white capitalist here to steal black people’s money. Do black students matter at Pukke? Well, not if you’ve decided that all white people are racist and Afrikaans
    is a white language. I know of black people who speak better Afrikaans than white people.

  10. Well, saying,” You knew that this was an Afrikaans institution and should have therefore apllied to study elsewhere where they Offer english…”, is the Laziest argument ever.

    I actually did my first and Second year at the Vaal-Triangle campus, but being from Potchefstroom, it didn’t make sense that i had to spend so much money ( which my Parents didn’t have – btw) on Accomodation +Groceries while i could just study down the road from my house ( at the NWU Potch campus)…
    So when asking such an ignorant question, ask yourself what the factors are which may have contributed to an English-speaking student studying at an Afrikaans institution…
    and besides, NWU ( Potch campus included) is a Public University and anybody who wishes to study there, may by all means do so.

    • She had a choice as to where she wanted to study, and now she is complaining about it? That is what I have a problem with, complaining. Instead of going to the appropriate person, she had to get the media involved to complain. I don’t feel it is a lazy argument, when I applied for my studies, Pukke was the only option left to me to study in Afrikaans. She had choices and options, I didn’t.Yes everyone should be welcome to study at Pukke, what should not be welcome, is as I have repeatedly said in previous comments, is a victim and a the world owes me mentality. She is studying at one of the best universities in SA, a fact that should have made her proud and happy. Instead of complaing to the media, why didn’t she, for example suggest that courses be presented in English as well? Without the translating services. I have no problem with becoming a proper bilingual university, as long as, just like her, I get to exercise my right to study in my language of choice.

      • By all means Carla.
        Maybe we should switch it around, The Afrikaans students should make use of translation/ interpretation services and we – the English students can have our classes in English. I do not see why the English students should be ” accomodated” , we are not guests here. . . Unless there is something I do not know? We should actually pay Hald-tuition for the Secondary education we are receiving… given lectures by translators instead of Lecturers. 🙂

  11. This is a very interesting debate. While I am sorry for the student who was interviewed for this piece i do not think such generalizations about a university can be made. Also- not everything is about race people!! As a number of posts have repeatedly said- speaking africaans doesnt make you a racist! We need to have an honest conversation in this country about what racism is and what racism isnt- it seems the blacks here are too often using the race card to detract from issues relating to education, merit, and performance and other issues that are keeping the community from progress.

    • “it seems the blacks here are too often using the race card to detract from issues relating to education, merit, and performance and other issues that are keeping the community from progress.” — WOWZERS – who the hell do you think you are?

  12. I am really sorry to read about this incident. And I hope that justice will be dealt where justice is due. But that’s just it – only where it is due. You most certainly aren’t going to punish 5 unrelated individuals for the crime of 1, are you? Because that’s racism 101, if you ask me. As for the language issue – I agree, the Potchefstroom campus is not as bilingual as some like to exclaim. But as also mentioned, Pukke is simply one campus. The NWU on the other hand can be considered to be trilingual. And on the topic of “move if you don’t approve.” I agree, but that statement is a bit harsh. Let me put it this way: Each campus has its pros and cons. The one delivers lectures in my home language, but will cost me more to attend. The other does not have this lingual benefit, but will most certainly cost less. Bottom line – the choice is yours. But I can assure you of three things: 1) Not all black students feel the way you do. 2) A lot of white people experience the same amount of racial persecution. 3) Not all white/black people are racist.

  13. It is so heart breaking to see how easily one can conform to unhealthy practice, because ‘the rest of the group does this or that (“Wish black students have the same spirit as those in Stellies” comment)’. Generalizing that ‘all white students’ are racist and all have to be persecuted, is ridiculous. Furthermore, saying that ‘black students’ are oppressed and want to kill whites at Pukke or whatever various people have contributed to this burning house, is obscure. Why should we fall into the same pit of our ancestors and their grieve and rebel? We are part of a new generation, new South Africa (where all of us have equal rights. The NWU caters for all, trying their best,but on the ground level-students must cultivate a culture of interracial mutual respect and at least trying to progress , not rebel towards the opposite race) and the ball is in our hands. Races can come together, leave all biases behind and learn from one another-language, culture, beliefs, likes, dislikes, EVERYTHING, as you would learn to know a new best friend. To these one-sides commentators, do you not know a white student who can speak Sotho/Tswana/Zulu etc? Do you not know a black student who can speak better Afrikaans or English than you can, as a white student? The time has come to leave the past, focus and work collaboratively towards the future, as PROUD SOUTH AFRICANS! I will not stand for discrimination , inequality ,rebel-but I will stand in acting in love (in my belief as Christian) and peacemaker. I will not contribute any further, but this statement was needed. I hope you experience peace and reconciliation and that the students could take initiative and MAKE A DIFFERENCE. Nkosi sikelel, Africa.

  14. As a white South African, im labeled as racist.. Im a first year student at NWU Potch, and i can honestly say if anyone can be racist, then i have reason to be.. Last week i was raped on campus by a black male student, i dont know his name, i dont know his age, but i get to live with the fact that i could see him anytime on campus and that scares me a lot… I am not a racist because of his actions, i dont go around not trusting black people because of him.. Not all whites are racist! I know there are some that is, but honestly they are in the minority…

    • It is a terrible experience that you had! Have you reported the incident? I hope this is no false accusation just to add petrol to fire. You know there are places on campus where you can report such incidents? Please – you do not have to walk around being scared all the time! Please get help as the Health Clinic, their welfare workers and psychiatrists!

      • Nel not at Pukke, because management hide this things and we are going to be victimised. Remember the story of the black first year student was killed at pools and Black securities were expelled bcus they were willing to tell the truth?
        Black people we are patient and understanding but I think white guys are not willing to do anything.
        I was racially abused twice by the white guys in the tunnel and last one at the school bar, so is that not racist?
        I never heard any white person agrees when they do such things, do u guys hate us that much? I do not think black ppl can agree if white person is abused in front everyone, we are Godly.
        Anyway we are not fighting just a friendly discussions,

        • He drowned. Get your facts straight.
          Criticism is the cowardly way of hiding a lack of creative thought. It’s pointless to hammer on the problem when you’re not willing to GET OUT IN PUBLIC and help fight for change.

  15. Look back in history – NWU Potch Campus was established by the Reformed Church (way back) and not the government. So if you look at the NWU since then, I think a lot has happened and changed – and like many already said here – Rome is not build in one day! I have 2 children studying at the NWU Potch Campus. One is an outgoing child with many friends and also studies in English. One is a shy child who struggles to make friends and participate in all the activity’s – but we do make this the University’s problem and blame others.
    I have been to the NWU Potch Campus and see many coloured students there and a lot of them were among white children – laughing, chatting and interacting. My child was at a University seminar last night and when a coloured student came in late she told him he may sit next to her – she did not chase him away. I do not have a problem with this article but I think in future just look at both sides. If you want to publish this then maybe get an interview with the white child that was recently stabbed at NWU Potch Campus or even the white child that was recently injured at Stellenbosh. Racism does not only comes from whites. When the protesters were allowed on the NWU Potch Campus recently, they cursed the white students, called them names, yelled that they will kill them, waved signs at them. What do you call this? To me this is not a call for transformation. And then it seems that as soon as the white children react, this is recorded as racism. They are also human and not all humans will stand and listen when you do this to them, some will react.
    So please in future – report on both sides and don’t just report to one side what they want to hear.

  16. Proud white student of Pukke

    Pukke is the only afrikaans university left in south africa… Afrikaans people from all aver SA come to Pukke just for the afrikaans, even people from Cape town or PE. How do you not understand that UCT ect. may be much closer to them, but they come all the whey to Pukke to speak their home language. BTW I’m afrikaans and I am replying in engilsh. Were any of you guys been attacked by an white student? But a black student stabbed a white student(HK) of his own hostel with scissors 3 times. And you want to say that we are the threat? Also in the first semester, we all saw in the Wapad that the numbers of blacks on campus is much greater than whites. Made my point.

  17. it is heart breaking to see and hear that aftr 22 years into democracy, black students in universities are treated as if higher learning education is a previlage to them… #fuck all the racist

  18. The following excerpt is from the Counsil on Higher Education’s “Langauge Policy Framework for South African Higher Education” (2011). The link to the entire document is available here:http://goo.gl/NlYmPW

    “4.6 ROLE OF HIGHER EDUCATION INSTITUTIONS IN THE PROMOTION OF MULTILINGUALISM

    4.6.1 In multilingual settings the emerging trend is to have variants of dual-medium delivery at post-graduate level. As a rule, this involves the First Language and English in one or other combination and it affects some disciplines, such as natural science, engineering, technology, more than others. Owing to the colonial legacy in South Africa, the danger that the African languages (other than Afrikaans) will never be developed for use as Language of Tuition at tertiary level is a real one. This implies that for generations the entire educational system will be based on English Second Language or even on English as a Third Language, with possibly more disastrous consequences than what we already have today. Consequently, while recognising the increasingly hegemonic status of English in business and communication globally, it is necessary to establish the foundations for the use of African languages as Languages of Tuition at all levels of the system, however long the process of doing so might take.”

    Afrikaans is not special. Nor is it treated special in being aloud to be the primary language of tuition at one university (Stellenbosch) and one campus of another univesity (NWU). It is in the interest of all South Africans that higher educational institutions be developed in all South African languages. The fact that this isn’t done is not okay and we should all impress the importance of this issue.

    Racism on the other hand should not be tolerated – it is important in this matter to distinguish between the issue of language tuition and racism, for these are not one and the same thing. The reflections of the students in the short documentary “Luister” is of great importance, both in terms of their shocking experiences and in terms of the errors in their assumptions. Yes, Afrikaners need to seriously reflect on how they raise their children AND how their peers raise their children, AND speak out against every form of racism. This being said, in “Luister” the Stellenbosch context it is often made out to be that Afrikaans as a culture is racist and that there is no place for Afrikaans or multilingual tertiary education in SA – one vastly false generalisation plus a fallacy of an argument thus presented to change the university’s language policy?!!!

    I am pro-dialogue.

    • Given that the Counsil of Higher Education believes it to be in the interest of all South Africans to further the development of higher education in all SA languages as set out above, is it then acceptable to assume and expect the national demographics of the country to be reflected at a university or university campus when the demographics of the interest group of the language of tuition looks entirely different from the national equivalent?

  19. I am not provoking any further comments, but on a point of interest -aren’t universities funded and semi-‘run’ by the Dept of Higher Education, eg. Government. So go to the cause and go aid the problem there. If need be, make it a clause that all universities MUST have all blooming South African languages, and furthermore-include Sign Language (all citizens have equal rights) and make all institutions, and I mean ALL tertiary institutions,disability friendly places with facilities. I am so sorry, but to work towards we must think rationally and stop being part of the sist of a problem. Come on New South Aricans, take pride in your country and stop bickering about nonsense.

  20. To say that you can’t complain about things like the altercation in the duikweg is untrue. Last year one ladies res accidentally raised their hands for a second or two at a 30 degree angle while singing a song. The University was labeled as a racist institution and the entire culture around first year students on campus was altered. By not reporting the actions of a really select few and rather writing a scathing article about a university, you are just polarising the black and white community. I believe people have a right to be taught in afrikaans in potch. Because most of the other universities are English only. I didn’t go to UJ and demanded afrikaans, because I know it’s English.

  21. Afrikaners is nie plesierig nie!! Afrikaans people are ignorant, generally speaking, they feel racially superior. Whether ur in a dominantly Afrikaans University or Town or High school.. They are all the same; again generally speaking.. That’s a fact.. They must first get their minds out the apartheid gutter before it even gets to us having Zulu universities.. This country does not revolve around Afrikaners.

    • Maybe the Zulus should build their own university(and see how that goes), try and find qualified Zulu lecturers. Just like the afrikaners made theirs. Instead of forcing afrikaners (over-qualified world class lecturers) to learn Zulu so that they can feel important.

    • @Geekhay: By using the phrase “generally speaking” (in this case repeatedly so) in the premise of an argument, your argument cannot lead to a “fact” as you state it. Adding assumptions to assumptions only produce further skewed assumptions. Generalisations and stereotypes are extremely dangerous constructs, especially when used in anti-sentiments towards identified ethnic groups, e.g. Nazi Germany, ’90s Rwanda, etc.

      Why do you find it necessary to state that “this country does not revolve around Afrikaners”? Where is the basis that anyone argues otherwise? This statement only serves to draw unqualified negative emotional connotations to an identified ethnic group = open-ended yet implied incitement?

  22. It must be a sad world to grow up thinking the world owes you something. Go to an English campus, there are so many. If you want attention or friends, you don’t need to start a movement. Just because there are bad and racist people in the world you don’t have to go and blame an whole institution.

  23. Racism! Can’t people get over it already? People forget that there are black people who are racist, but that’s just their personality. If someone messes with just mess with him too. We all students here, we haven’t reached that certain maturity, we still think like kids sometimes. if somebody says fuck u, tell him fuck u too. Ay! just put aside racism for a moment. I’m proudly black and i regard every nation equal.

    • I agree. Blacks being rude to blacks = not racism, whites being rude to whites = not racism.(these two happens a lot, it is part of life). blacks being rude to whites and whites being rude to blacks suddenly =racism. There are bad, rude, racist, etc. whites and blacks in this world and they are the cancer. We just need to fight to not make them the norm. I really think this girl at the top is just looking for attention.

    • Yes! I agree.

  24. Dear White People

    White people be like :”I don’t have any problem with black people, however I do have a problem when people think the world owes them something, and when they don’t get it, everyone who refused them is immediately labeled a racist.” How dare you!

    Nothing in White people’s experience comes close to the suffering of Black people.  Nothing.  And you inflicted this suffering upon us.  You White people owe us Black people a tremendous debt – still unpaid.

    Let me be clear.  Yes, White people suffer, and some at the hands of Black people.   I’ve also known some Black people who have enjoyed relative ease and economic privilege – many more than some White people I’ve known.

    I’m not talking about the real and pervasive individual pains we all experience.  I’m not talking about the fair number of outliers and exceptions to the minority’s reality.  I’m talking about our overall collective experience as real and distinct racial groups.  I’m talking about our overall, collective experience as White and Black peoples.

    The experience of Black people in what is today the “Democratic” Republic of South Africa , spans hundreds – hundreds – of years of being bought and stolen from their homelands, ripped from their cultures, parted from their families and their language, being sold and treated as inanimate objects.  It’s an experience of systematic, frequent, and legal rape, beating, murder, torture, kidnapping, incarceration, cruel working conditions and constant verbal and physical dehumanization.  For hundreds of years. Even after slavery ended officially in 1865, apartheid in 1992, much of this continued for another 100 years, well into our lifetimes.  Since slavery ended, the Black experience has included beatings, murder, burning crosses, vandalism, and intimidation and humiliation at lunch counters, drinking fountains, public streets, private homes, work places and the voting booth.   It has included de jure and de facto exclusion from decent neighborhoods, home loans, schools, adequate jobs, political representation, legal justice in courtrooms.  While increasingly less legal, much of this continues today, as does the fallout and trauma of coming from 12 or more generations of abuse.

    And all this because WE are Black.  Whites as a group have experienced nothing even close.

    Let me be clear again Afrikaaners.  Maybe you had no slaveowners in your lineage as far as you know.  Maybe you came from various strains of farmers and working class folks arriving from Europe at various points in history.  Maybe your lineage is full of suffering: crops failed, plagues came, war with the British, women had more children than they could handle and no socially acceptable channel for their genius, money was short, wars broke out.  And still the life you enjoy today is in large part due to what people of African descent contributed to this country.

    Black people’s bodies – literally and figuratively – tilled the soil, built the foundation, and grew the backbone of this country.  They planted and harvested crops that fed you and grew White wealth.  They built the roads and railroads.  They nursed and cared for White children so wealthy White women could spend time doing other things like studying and developing their artistic talents. And on and on.  And you have yet to truly acknowledge that White people are rich because Black people did so much to build this nation, and built it for cheap or less than nothing.

    The life you enjoy today is also made easier by the fact that you were born with a White skin in a country where having White skin has brought meaningful, unearned advantages for hundreds of years.  And yet so many White people think racism is gone, over, a moot point, or a tiresome topic.  Especially Good White People.  They point to all the progress they’ve made and how much better things are.  Yes, they’ve made progress and things are better – but this was just as much (or more) due to Black peoples’ efforts as theirs.  Yes you still owe us a tremendous balance.

    White people!  YOU are the problem.  YOU stand in the way of progress, of ending racism.

    I think it’s almost funny when White people say race or slavery are sensitive issues.  Really?  Talking about slavery or race makes you feel uncomfortable?  How about all the ways you’ve made Black people “feel uncomfortable” just for being Black?  And for hundreds of years, in a way we could never escape?  You have the luxury of not listening whenever you want – Blacks don’t have the luxury of not being Black.  Can we agree that to say slavery or racism has made Black people “feel uncomfortable” would be insulting to an outrageous degree?  And yet you’re the ones that feel uncomfortable with the topic of race or slavery. How dare YOU! I think your guilt is showing.

    I think it’s almost funny when White people say they’re sick and tired of hearing about race and racism.  Guess what?  So are Black people.  The difference is that most people of color think or talk about race almost every day… because we have to.  We have to in order to survive, whether in universities, city streets or the corporate workplace.  Black parents start talking to their kids about race and racism in elementary school, and teach their young sons exactly how to behave with White people and police – to help them survive interactions with you.   And you’re sick and tired of hearing about race or racism a few times a year in the media? How dare YOU!

    No, not “everything is about race”.  If you’re White and feeling that way, it’s probably because Black people and other groups of color are feeling more and more safe enough to speak up, and you’re getting a glimpse – a tiny glimpse – of what it’s been like to be them for hundreds of years in a way they can’t ever escape.

    I think it’s almost funny when White people say Black people need to “get over” racism already.  How about we tell Jews to “get over” the Holocaust?  How about we tell Americans to “get over” 9/11? Can you imagine the uproar?  Keep in mind that 9/11 only occurred once, and while it justifiably traumatized millions of people, it only really happened to a few thousand.  What if you – and every Afrikaaner — experienced 9/11 every month for 500 years?  How easy would that be to just “get over”?  How cruel to say such a thing.  How dare YOU!

    Here’s the real question – what are you White people afraid of?  Are you afraid of Black people taking over?  Afraid they’re coming to collect their debt of centuries of oppression?  How dare you think that Black people wanting – demanding – to be treated with the same fairness and dignity as White people is taking anything away from you.  Even if it were, it’s high time you started paying your debt.

    Or maybe you’re afraid that Black people are telling the truth – that their experience is real.  Then maybe you aren’t who you say you are.  Maybe you aren’t who we think you are.

    Why isn’t Black people’s experience enough evidence in itself that you – all of you whiteys – have a problem?  Do you not believe Black South Africans because their experience isn’t yours?  Because you think they’re making it up?  Because it’s unflattering?  Inconvenient?  Wow, that’s awful – almost as bad as slavery!   Maybe you’re not hearing us because we’re Black?

    How terrified you must be.  This fear is further evidence that you know you owe us a debt.  When people test their unconscious biases, they usually carry negative unconscious biases against Black people.  We know that Black people aren’t given a fair shake or treated equally.  And yet you’re unwilling to give anything to balance it out, crying unfairness.  How dare YOU!

    White people!  Your voices are the voices of history.  Either you speak and act consistent with the historical forces of oppress or the forces of progress.   When you say Black people are “entitled” you’re really saying Black people are “uppity n—rs.”  When you say “Police Lives Matter” you’re really saying “Police Lives Matter More Than Black Lives.”

    Good White People!  It’s time for action. History has been steadily moving in a clear direction – towards more freedom, justice and equality.  Change is coming – with you, without you, or in spite of you.  Which side of history will you be on? Will you act from fear, or from love – powerful love that insists on justice? How will the future judge your goodness and morality?  Will you be the movie characters that inspire shame and horror in White viewers 50 – 150 years from now? Or will you be the ones that inspire cheers and pride?

    Again, let’s be clear.  Black people as a group aren’t any more saintly than White people.  Yes, there are Blacks who “play the race card”, maybe even “race bait”.  They are a minority.  Their actions and voices tarnish, but do not diminish the truth that nothing in White people’s experience comes close to the suffering of Black people, and you White people owe Black people a tremendous debt – still unpaid.  Our actions are in response to racism, not the cause.  They are tiny ways individuals are making tiny moves to right the wrongs you have inflicted.

    And since when does someone need to be blameless to receive justice?  If that were true, none of us ever would.  Why do you insist on blacks being twice a good as you to receive half your rights? 

    Yes, there is division within the black community – this is not one monolithic community with the same opinions and experiences any more than White people are.  This does not change the fact that nothing in White people’s experience comes close to the suffering of Black people, and you White people owe Black people a tremendous debt – still unpaid.

    Yes, there is bigotry and prejudice on all sides.  Yes, many Black people hold stereotypes and prejudice against White people (I wonder why?). Yes, Black people have murdered, raped, beaten, assaulted, abused, and insulted White people.  Individual Blacks’ prejudices do not change the truth that nothing in White people’s experience comes close to the suffering of Black people, and you White people owe us Black people a tremendous debt – still unpaid.

    No, being the beneficiaries of racism doesn’t make things all hunky-dory.  Having “privilege” doesn’t make you feel privileged.  I have yet to meet a White person who felt their life was all peachy keen and easy street.  This is why so many of you resist the notion that you have race privilege. But imagine just how much less peachy and easy your lives would feel if you didn’t have White skin.  Imagine your presence, competence, and intelligence being constantly questioned – before you even open your mouth to speak, or even before you show up in person.  Imagine being constantly watched by store owners and stopped by police and security guards.  Imagine carrying the visible mark of your slave heritage everywhere you go.  Only Blacks (and other people of color) experience racism: the systematic distribution of resources, power and opportunity in our society to the benefit of people who are white and the exclusion of people of color.

    The chickens have come home to roost, Good White People.  Now is the reckoning.  You’ve been paying the debt down, but you still owe us.  Now is the time that you pay in full.  The fact you didn’t incur this debt and you aren’t personally guilty for slavery and Jim Crow is irrelevant. Your system isn’t built on that principal.  If my grandfather dies and leaves behind an outstanding debt, it doesn’t just go away, my father gets it.  If he doesn’t pay it off, I inherit the debt. Someone always pays for debts, and you being beneficiaries of slavery and racism makes you co-signers.  Bummer.

    Nothing in White people’s experience comes close to the suffering of Black people, and you White people owe Black people a tremendous debt – still unpaid.  You’ve inherited this debt. Here’s how you pay it down:

    You must apologize.  Because of Mandela you got forgiven without you ever apologizing. Mandela is dead now. We reconciled alone. We “forced” you into this “rainbow nation”.

    You must ensure legislation designed to even the playing field stays in place and is improved.  And it’s way too soon to dismantle Affirmative Action.  You can talk about everyone being treated fairly regardless of color once you’ve made that a reality by correcting the tilt in the playing field.

    You must hold your own accountable.  It’s not really your job as a White person to call out a Black person’s self-hatred, internalized oppression, “playing the race card”, or “race baiting”.  I trust Black people can self regulate and help their own come correct..  To not hold your own accountable damages your integrity and your cause.  And so it’s your job to hold White people, especially elected officials and public servants accountable for what they say and don’t say, what they do and don’t do, and what policies and programs they get behind.

    You must look slavery and racism squarely in the eye.  Use your unearned privilege, built on the bedrock of millions of slaves you have yet to acknowledge, much less thank, to insist on true and complete equity for those who need it most, and the descendants of those your ancestors abused.  You don’t need Afriforums, you don’t need to dismantle programs or policies that give Africans a leg up – you got a 500+ year head start on us!

    You must address the triple threat that Martin Luther King identified – racism, poverty and militarization.  You are part of the problem.

    That’s your debt, your bill due and payable.  Sound difficult?  Scary?  Unfair?  How dare you!  Nothing in White people’s experience comes close to the suffering of Black people.  Nothing. And you inflicted this suffering upon us.  These actions are the very least you can do.

    Tired of hearing about race and racism?  Then make it stop goddamnit.

    • I do feel the sympathy that you have for your forefathers, I do agree that the past has not been kind to Non-White populations but as for South Africa, the average student that studies at the NWU PUK is between the years of 18 – 21. That means that they were born post 1993, meaning they did not take any part in the accusations that your are making. This might just be my opinion but my forefathers has absolutaly nothing to do with the man I am today. I do not know their names, the only thing I carry from them is my surname. And the fact is neither do you.

    • Dear Mogomotsi

      I was born in 1992, and because of White Guilt, I suppose, a lot of our generation of white kids were not taught properly about the atrocities of the past. In school history, we learnt about the Khoisan, and in Arts and Culture we were taught about the Venda and the Ndbele tribes. Our parents were either ashamed of the past or bitter about the post-apartheid regime, and thus we are in the dark about both sides – white and black and in-between. I appreciate your comment, because our generation and the ones to come need to realize that there are two sides to this story, and that we have heard neither. Black people know their side, as you have said, you talk about these issues everyday, because you have to. White kids never hear a thing, except their parents’ frustration and fear of saying anything ‘politically correct’.

      I study at Stellenbosch, and yes, it would be very sad if the Afrikaans culture here is destroyed. Of course I have pride in my race and my culture, because I see the potential in my people to succeed and help make this country great. Unfortunately, the scales have not been tipped yet, and the economic and intellectual power largely remains in the hands of the white people, and I think us white kids have tunnel vision in this regard and come to believe it is because we are superior in some way. In any case, my emotions are also roller coasting along with this ride, and confusion and hopelessness is abundant, but I think it is great that finally these issues are not being swept under the carpet to be ignored anymore – black students are speaking out, and explaining to us the reasons for their sometimes extreme and violent actions. White students who have tried to be open minded cannot ignore black pain any longer, because it is staring them in the face from every corner, and though it is easy for us to dismiss it, it is clear that your dismissal will not be tolerated and that we are going to have to #Luister or be annihilated.

      Nonetheless . . . When we have listened, I hope that there will be a chance for us also to speak – those among us that love this country and do not wish to see it go up in flames.

      We are also in fear, and we also need to watch our words carefully. There is a huge cultural difference between the black and the white people in our country, and the only way to progress is to begin by listening to each other.

      You have said repeatedly that we owe you a debt. This is true. But our culture is extremely individualistic and capitalistic, and we will not work hard towards our own demise! A living organism is simply not programmed to do that. What I’m trying to say is, for the debt to be paid, for us to uplift the black community, there must be incentive for us to do that. A fear of dying if we don’t do otherwise is not incentive. That fear will only instinctively drive us to self-preservation – survival at any cost, be it fleeing the country, minding our own business, civil war, or suicide. We would also kill ourselves before we actively work towards killing our people and our culture.

      My point is… For there to remain anything in our hands that we are able to give back to the black community, you will need to allow us space to exist. And yes #Luister was a great way of opening our eyes. Hitting us where it hurts is a great way to get the conversation started. But if all of us cannot begin to accept our differences and tolerate each other, and allow each other to exist, and start to UNDERSTAND each other, then there will be no peaceful way forward, and our country will look like Zimbabwe sooner rather than later.

      Again . . . For us to return a debt, we must have the incentive to do so and we must have the capability. Stripping us from our jobs and our schools will not automatically make you rich, you will destroy the wealth that we owe you, and in the end you will only be satisfied if we pay the debt with our lives. But killing us will still not make you wealthy.

      I don’t have the answers. I am just stating our view as I understand it. But the only way to resolve this country’s issues peacefully is to talk to each other and start trying to understand each other, but also allowing each other to exist, so that it is possible to learn from each other.

    • How funny it must be that you can not even speak your mind? You have to go to certain web-sites to copy 80% of what your “wrote”. That is true desperation

      https://finesetinitia.wordpress.com/2015/09/10/dear-white-people-you-owe-us-black-people-a-tremendous-debt-still-unpaid-says-angry-south-african/

      You are a very said person

    • Mogomotsi,

      You’re a warmonger. In fact, you’re a warmonger of the worst kind. You yammer and stammer on a mass psychology that glorifies your failures, and vilifies your successes.

      Why ?

      You really think you can do better than what your ancestors did before 1994.

      Twak.

      Your forefathers got UNISA degrees in prison with a Bantu Education Matric Certificates, whereas nowadays you can’t do math, you can’t read, you can’t write, and you hate taking ANA-exams.

      Or am I wrong ?

      You’re tearing down statues because you just plain can’t study. You no longer know how. It’s much easier to get a matric certificate by destroying schools, assaulting teachers, and intimidating the authorities.

      And now you hooligans have set your sights upon the universities. All you need is a pretense for violence, which you now have supplied with alacrity.

      Congratulations on your effort.

      The sad thing is – of the students that really study, the majority are women. Why ? They’re single mothers. Hint : that’s an insult to the men.

      Do you know what the saddest and most ironic thing about Africa is ? Since you’ve got a 139 IQ, can you tell me why no African country can even reach the top 20 in the global survey of countries ranked by military strength ?

      South Africa is at 32 with no fighter pilots, no helicopter pilots, no navy, and troops kicked out of UN peacekeeping forces in the DRC.

      The DRC nogal.

      The SADF destroyed a billion dollars’ worth of Soviet military hardware at Cuito Cuanavale in the late 1980’s.

      The SANDF will never match this. Never.

      Why is this important ?

      Africa is powerless to resist colonization yet again – and colonization is coming, probably after you’ve tried to massacre every last white man out of this continent – that uhuru dream of yours.

      My advice ?

      Read this paper written by the Dept of Political Science, University of Calgary. It discusses the role of Executive Outcomes in the Sierra Leone Civil War.

      Basically a mercenary band ,consisting of ex-SADF soldiers, and never exceeding 250, forced the barbarous RUF to sue for peace.

      The RUF had an army of thousands.

      Why am I posting this then ?

      For me this was the most revealing :

      The superstitious rebels also excused their losses by claiming the mercenaries benefited from an advanced command of witchcraft or even “divine help,” which seemingly overrode the protective powers that had been conferred by the rebels’ own witch doctors.

      As a result of this mentality, many groups of rebel fighters chose to decapitate their own witch doctors following failed battles, after which they would demand a new round of incantations from a fresh cadre of sorcerers.

      For their part, the mercenaries were shocked at their opponents’ apparent inability to innovate new tactics or, generally, to learn anything from their mistakes, regardless of how many times they were brought to light.

      So here is my advice then – don’t trust your witch doctors.

      http://www.cpsa-acsp.ca/papers-2009/Fitzsimmons1.pdf

  25. I did read this long comment :/. So you want white people to suffer for hundreds of years and then you will be happy? Study economics and learn what BEE is. I am sorry your race lost in history, but we are not in history and you want equality? Then maybe give equality. I am sorry for what my forefathers did, history is gruesome in so many ways, not just race on race violence.

    If we had to hold people accountable for their forefathers actions then we all would deserve the death penalty. Think about how many forefathers you have and how many bad ones there were if you think about statistics, black/white. Growing up thinking that the world owes you something is truly not the right view to have. I feel sorry for you and hope you can get rid of all your hatred.

  26. Koos, maybe you need to re-read that “long comment” one more time. How dare you equate yourself to us! How dare you! And this is not me feeling sorry for myself or feeling entitled. I just gave you a glimpse of what blacks think and believe(justified or not) in. This is a glimpse, watch the trends. Your time is coming, like it or not. Its inevitable. The only choice you need to make is which side of the fence you will be standing on when that eventually happens. I’ll make an example with this university debacles. Notice how the “twangs”/”coconuts”/”middle class” are now speaking out. White supremacy survived this long because of black intellects and economically advantaged blacks were too tolerant. Watch the trends. From xenophobia, farm attacks, luister, EFF, protests, mall robberies and the lots. Read the signs. Our tolerance is fading. Stop hiding behind blog posts and own up. Decide if you want us to do this the hard way or the easy way. We are going to take our power back. Watch the trends oom koos. This is not a one man’s opinion

    • I am not a oom, and I really do feel sorry for you.

      “Throughout life people will make you mad, disrespect you and treat you bad. Let God deal with the things they do, cause hate in your heart will consume you too.”

      Will Smith

      • now you giving me your whitr god? How arrogant you are. For even using a black skinned white man as an example. Like the Mandela you gave me as a hero now you also giving me will smith. Wow. I can’t wait

        • Sorry man if you think I am arrogant, it was not meant like that. I really just took the first quote that I agreed with. I promise you I did not mean it like that… I see now it is pointless to try and convince you not to hate me.
          (This is also my last reply).

    • You never had powe and never will.

  27. What did I just Read

    After reading through everyone’s comments I noticed one big problem. Just clarify this for me, not one racist remark from white to black was exchanged here.

    #welcometosa

  28. Koos are you aware that nou is die tyd, were black are fed up by discrimination, beware at Pukke ons kom vir hulle mense, check your stat, next year applicants are mostly blacks and 75% of them are admitted, and they are coming with a revolutionary party at Pukke, watch the space, change it to a bilingual university as it is said to be or be ready for the battle of the century, we are going to stand for our own rights, check the media, a fight is coming and this one is not like that of apartheid, this fight is a sure that whites gaan lose, the black youth of today are angry that many people think. People wanted to advice me to join them on this fight against Afrikaans at Pukke, I can’t, my future is a blessing to me. I don’t want to ruin it through some fanatic mind set of guys who want revenge for apartheid, and now you are giving them the opportunity to get it.

  29. I’m tswana and I never asked for a tswana university. Zulu is not the only language in SA mind you. Nor is it the only group having a problem with the so-called afrikaaner university built by Dutch reformers. Reality check, it was built by black hands. No white put a brick on any university is South Africa let alone africa. Do you need to tell me that Sandton was built by whites? With their own hands? This is the point I’m trying to put forward of which you are ignoring and playing the double victim strategy. For you to even have an “afrikaneer” university to attend, black people had to labour for it. How dare you! Check your facts. Even the wealth used to fund its construction was accumulated by our own black hands. Stop your arrogance

    • Did you personally build one of these things you spoke of? No you did not, stop with the “how dare you”. Yes we dare, we we’re born and raised in SA just as you. Stop talking about oppression if you are currently studying at NWU PUK, because then you do not know anything about it. If u are not studying at the PUK then you have nothing to say about this topic, your narrowmindedness is toxic please just stop.

    • on the web ‘Marketing is no longer about unanticipated spam’ Solve disk slowdown We need a tribe – karcuatrethers.com 02/08/2009 In this Seesmic video Seth Godin explains to Loic Le Meur why you

  30. Truth well said, am from Malawi, but the conditions that I experienced in PUKK made me to puke forever. I spent only three months and dropped. The conditions in that campus of north west are terrifying. Long live the spirit of Nelson Mandela long live

  31. My fellow blacks, what you have just witnessed in the comment section here is what the white people do all the time. Incase you missed it I’ll point it out to you. I might need to plagiarize someone as I’m too lazy to google the dictionary.

    What just transpired here is what is called “tone policing”.

    Tone policing is a dangerous habit that has real psychosocial consequences. By telling people not to express their anger at oppression, tone police are not only promoting their own personal comfort over that of someone who is in pain, but they are also asking the angry people to suffer in silence, which has very serious psychological consequences. In addition, the current academic obsession with “civility” (a fancy proxy for tone) seems to have only placed (uncooperative) scholars of color in its crosshairs.

    People engaging in tone policing are often having a difficult time distinguishing between discomfort due to a potentially emotional person communicating about their experiences of oppression versus discomfort due to someone’s malicious behavior. When someone communicates the factual and emotional truth of their experiences with oppression to you, it is not a malicious attack on you or your existence. Your discomfort is not their fault either; it is the fault of the oppressive structure they are. Responding to, one which you may be benefiting from.

    Moreover, tone policing is mean. When tone police tell people that they can’t or won’t listen because of tone, what they are really communicating is, “I don’t care about your experience with oppression or how it makes you feel. I only care about how it is discomfiting for me to hear about it.”

  32. Azad Essa

    The Daily Vox will be hosting a google hangout next week Tuesday to discuss some of the issues raised here. If you are interested in participating in the discussion, please send an email azad@thedailyvox.co.za

  33. Azad Essa

    Agreed, why not hangout with Anon.

  34. I am so shocked how far stupidity can stretch. 1)blacks have institutions that will educate you in english, why dont you go there? Don’t tell me its tuition, the day you decided to go to pukke you knew it’s an afrikaans University, if you did not know that, then you must open your eyes a bit, so why spend your tuition money at a university you know is afrikaans and then complain about it. I will tell you why you won’t go to another University of your language, cause it is a mess, now who made it a mess, the blacks, you can’t manage anything and ot shows everywhere in this country so don’t come and complain if you made the desicion to go to pukke and you complain now, but lets say the mojority of the campus is black, that place will be a mess just like UJ and all other black universities. You are busy dragging this country into the dumps and the day you are in the dumps you will scream for help to the whites, you have two choices go to another University that’s been messed up or stay and stop complaining, stop trying to blame everyone else for your poor desicion, you decided to go to pukke.

    • Lol, This is shocking… it really is. wow!!!
      Transformation will happen at NWU… I mean, “PUKKE”.

    • It is so shocking to see how these afrikaners have made themselves believe that Afrikaans is ”just another language” and has no effect on apartheid. Black people did not choose to learn afrikaans, they fucken FORCED to learn and speak it. Has anyone ever forced the afrikaaners to learn any vernaC? NO! that is because they always have a choice to do as they please.They do so well in varsity because they have a choice to study in their mother tongue! so tell me how that is still not a discrimination towards black people?

  35. Shocked… Wow you are shockingly stupid. Maybe that’s why you even hid you real name. Afrikaneers are a minority in this country. Its also the fourth most spoken language here so what makes you so arrogant to believe you deserve a university of your own? Other universities are a mess? Then please explain why is Pukke rated 13th in South Africa? Damn its not even on the top 10(www.africa.com/top-10-universities-in-south-africa-2015-edition/)

    When we took over the country from you idiots it was deep in debt(remember that?) $22 billion to be precise. That’s R300 billion to IMF, I’m not even gonna bother with world bank and UN. Is that the mess you talking about? All those things you loudly claim to have built, guess what, us the blacks are paying for it(never mind the fact that we physically built it in the first place, yes, including your precious Puke) The union building, we paying for it. The universities, we paying for it. The cities, we paying for it. The highways, we are paying for it. All because verwoerd and the smuts were 10 times more corrupt that zuma and his cronies. You can’t choose your history. Its already there. You can’t change it either.

    So you have two choices. Grow a brain or grow a brain.

  36. I am a coloured woman who has dealt with this racism thing forever .,In my mind the best way for our generation(who i think of as a lost generation) is to stop this HATRED that is so evident. This needs to be said ,in my view, blacks takes everything personally and they regulary make it political issue .We have to understand ,there are jerks in all cultures .As a coloured what i see is, is that you want to elimanite Afrikaans from this country.WHY?
    None of the blacks realize that ,we as Afrikaners struggles with Englis as well ,what about that ?
    ENGLISH is the universal language ,and we need to have Afrikaans institutions as well .WHY dont you lobby the ANC for a universarity in your language.There are many official languages in our country,but instead you make it a white thing ,the one thing that stands out is that our education system is poor and and going down rapidly. Whats happening now in this country is really saddening ,because while students needs to be in class ,they making havok!!!This
    is not how Nelson Mandela would have fight this struggle ,Blacks should stop being so sensitive ,get on with the real thing ….and that is Studying , because we need to build a better South Africa , tThink and stop following the idiots that leading you to disaster.

  37. On your further comment Josh, thank you. If only your compatriots could have your eyes

    • Definition of Stereotyping: “It indicates that you seem convinced that characteristics that you have observed in certain people of a particular ethnic group apply to all that belong to that group”. You are therefore making utterances concerning others that you base on your own standards and then use such standards to judge others regardless of the fact that theirs may be a different culture.

      That my friend is called being narrowminded or as you have metioned it before, being “shockingly stupid”

  38. @ Carla
    It’s sad to think that up till now, you have the guts to say such a thing.
    Almost every black person in this country knows how to speak afrikaans…what are you really saying?
    I don’t think you even know how to speak a black language…not only south african languages.
    I feel you are misinformed about black people and most likely living in areas sparced with blacks.
    I do hope you open your mind to learn new things about the people of this country. The black people.
    I am a wonderful work in progress and am extremely proud of how far i have come.
    Spend less time generalising and more time learning.
    Just saying…

  39. Spelling error
    *sparsed insted of sparced

  40. I am not a student of NWU, but I wish to start my studies there in 2017. I do not wish to fight or debate about this, I am only stating my opinion in a non threatening way towards any race, culture or religion. I have read through all the comments as well as the article itself. The one aspect of this whole conversation that struck me the most is that in almost every comment, the individual starts their sentence with either ” I as a black person”, or “I as a white person”. I have noticed that people, young or old, still label themselves to the colour that they are in today’s era. I am not white, I am not black, I am not Indian nor am I brown. I am a South African. I am a person. Never mind the colour of my skin. The colour of my skin will not be studying for me. It is I who will be studying. Neither can the colour of my skin contribute to the economy of South Africa, try to make a good change, or raise my children with good values and a clear thinking mind one day. Only I can do that, only the person who I am inside, can. We need to learn to refer to ourselves as people, just people. We all have done good and we all have done bad. So I think that the next step should be to do better, united. As a person, I would do as much research as I can before making a choice as to where I would like to complete my studies. If I were Afrikaans or English, I would not apply to a university where the majority of people speak Xhosa, Zulu, etc. Not because of any other but the logical reason that it would effect my studies ( because I would not be able to speak those languages well enough to do well in my studies), and if I were Zulu, Tswana etc, I would not apply to a University where Most people speak Afrikaans, for the same reason. We are all responsible for our own choices in life. No one forces you as a person to make a certain decision in life. You make it, and YOU alone can determine the future that you will have. In this context, only you can decide where you want to study, and you must unfortunately carry the consequinces. I do understand that a lot of people in South Africa are still racists. An those people should be ashamed of themselves. But please, hear me when I say , a lot of different nationalities use racism as an excuse today. Do not get me wrong, I understand that when someone calls you nasty names, treats you badly and neglects you because of the colour of your skin that it is wrong. But do not use racism as an excuse because you made a wrong choice and can not deal with the outcome of it. Your choices are your own, whom ever you may be.

    “I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul.” – Nelson Mandela.

  41. well saying Hopefull, at last here comes a fresh-minded person

  42. The world doesn’t owe you anything. As a student at NWU I have never experienced anything similar to what you describe on campus or around campus for that matter. Noticed how I didn’t use my race to describe myself. The text books are in English, the study guides too. If I get stuck, I email the lecturer, and I get a complete explanation of something I had missed by chance during the translation service. Judging an entire group of people based on the actions of a few people in said group, is morally wrong. People are all different and differ in the way they would respond to situations. I’m sorry you encountered some obnoxious students that tarnish the Reputation of NWU. I am definitely not defending or justifying such sophomoric behaviour, but chances are, they would’ve treated ANYONE else in the same fashion. This is the real world, no matter where you go, there will always be dissonance in social society. We can’t change that, but we can decide how we react..

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